Just ordered this book on the strength of a post by the Blind Beggar... I have always felt really uncomfortable about linear models... particularly when it comes to evangelism and discipleship... process/linear models just don't seem to bear any relation to the real stories... it could take years... it could be instantaneous... I have always preferred Westerhoffs picture of faith development to Fowler for the same reasons... these things (like us) must be organic, they ebb and flow like the tides, there are so many variables, just like growth, there are verdant and dormant seasons, times when growth only comes because of death etc. etc. anyway the point of this is to mention the book.. TBB posted the following diagram from the book, which I shamelessly plagiarise... 'cos its good.. and makes the point better than I could... I look forward to reading the book when it arrives :)
You may interested in http://theresurgence.com/profile_ed_stetzer
Posted by: Paul Tilley | 04/08/2006 at 15:00
I'm fairly sure that it will be just me, but this type of diagram makes no more sense to me than a linear model! I understand the variety of variables but I never see the 'ebb + flow', the 'verdant + dormant', the time scale etc. When I look at the diagram above all I can see is that being at the centre is the most preferable position; as if, when you get there, you have arrived.
There have been attempts to represent youth spirituality in diagrammatic form but they rarely make any sense to me either. How can something like faith or spiritual changes, things that are founded on unique + individual stories, be made into a diagram that represents a journey?
Posted by: Phil Rankin | 06/08/2006 at 15:15
Yes, good comment Phil... DIagrams are always a touch miasmic... personally these kind of diagrams always appear in three dimensions to me.... and... as I mentioned re. westerhoff they need to somehow contain the fluidity to move in an out and round in circles... you are right no diagram nor language will every encapsulate the 'truth' they are all flawed attempts... what I do see in the diagram above is that all the other sections are themselves extant within the central section... one does not leave behind the others... nor is the center a static place... in three dimensions it would perhaps be a spiral/helix? I guess in the way learning cycles have begun to be illustrated... but... for some of us diagrams are easier to wrestle with than words!
Posted by: Mark Berry | 06/08/2006 at 19:11
Mark, I agree with what you write regarding all elements remaining extant in the centre piece but now you have me intrigued....a spiral/helix?!!
You're right that some find diagrams easier than words but I'm not sure I do. Its like art I suppose...a person might observe a butterfly in a picture when the rest of us see blobs of paint! Im fascinated when people see things or understand in different ways so if you can...in words (lol!!)...could you explain the spiral/helix bit?
Posted by: Phil Rankin | 07/08/2006 at 13:09
The spiral thing is that when you have a conventional circular diagram e.g. Kolb or Lewin's Learning Cycle or The Theological Reflection cycle, that instead of it simply going round in a 2d circle that it spirals in 3d... here I suppose the tendency is to see a flat image with an inwards movement... therefore any movement which moves away from the centre is seen as a retrograde (back-sliding ;) ) movement... the spiral idea doesn't see this but sees the moving out and in in three dimensions... so it may look in 2d like going backward but it may be going upwards as well... confusing I know... but take the learning cycle, when one returns to the stage of hypothesis you have not returned, i.e. you are not the same, you have 'moved on' been affected by the reflection and action, any new onservation and hypothesis will be impacted by what has been learned (pos or neg) before... hence it is not simply spinning round and round in a circle but there is growth implicit in every spin around no matter which step you are currently engaged in...
In this particular diagram perhaps once one has engaged with the centre this brings a new search, or maybe a re-examination of what got you there in the first place? But it is never going backwards... it may be approaching a new situation, struggle or search from a place of certainty that has itself raised new uncertainties etc. etc.
Now... I'm going round in circles!
Posted by: Mark Berry | 07/08/2006 at 17:40
Sounds like the circular "experience - reflection - understanding - reflection - experience - reflection" (although of course 'understanding' and 'reflection' are themselves experiences but that's getting even more complicated!!). This is circular but it is also about growth so your spiral is certainly applicable. Makes sense to me!
I guess it is about using words + pictures +, as with most things in life, this is an 'as well/and' rather than the traditional 'either/or'.
Posted by: Phil Rankin | 07/08/2006 at 20:02
Indeed... though Kolb's cycle (and Lewin's) goes... Experience (concrete - sensing) - Reflection (observation - reviewing) - Abstraction (conceptualisation - thinking) - Testing (experimentation - doing)... Theological relflection models follow a similar pattern... Laurie Green develops this into a spiral model... Experience - Reflection - Intuition - Exploration - New Witness - Response - New situation experience - etc. Green doesn't draw it back the starting 'Experience' node but to a new node above the original - hence the spiral.
Posted by: Mark Berry | 07/08/2006 at 20:41
The others I know but Laurie Green...have you any info on websites, books etc?
Posted by: Phil Rankin | 08/08/2006 at 12:22
The book is called 'Let's do Theology'
Posted by: Mark Berry | 08/08/2006 at 12:58
Thanks.
Posted by: Phil Rankin | 08/08/2006 at 15:41